I’d like to get everyone’s opinion on a somewhat controversial topic. There’s that ever present issue with what is right when it comes to magick. Most people simply go with the old advice of the Rule of Three or Karma. Then there are the ones that adhere to Crowley’s only rule which was ‘Do what thou Will shall be the whole of the law.” Remember that he means by Will, he means the true Will of the person. He’s not simply saying do whatever you want to do. He’s saying that you should do whatever you need to do to stay on your personal path to enlightenment, and to never stray.
I, personally, am a follower of Crowley’s laws. Instead of trying to convince you to do things for your common man, he instead points out that becoming the best that you can be is far more important. That doesn’t mean that you should kill people, do negative magick for no reason, or even insult people. These things break his law quite quickly because they do not put you further on the path to finding your True Will. They actually create road blocks by creating enemies. On the other hand, if someone is doing something that is keeping you from becoming a better and more full you, then you should absolutely do what you need to to remove that negative influence from your life. That doesn’t mean to kill them because, again, you are simply creating more obstacles for yourself.
On the other hand, the Rule of Three and Karma are based on a system of right and wrong. It feels a little too reminiscent of heaven and hell style ideas. I don’t think that there’s any reason why you can do something that is wrong if it’s your soul’s true path, yet that may mean that you have to banish someone who is continuously interferring with your life. In the Rule of Three and Karma world, you should let the Universe take care of bringing the problems back to bite them in the ass. In the mean time, they are interferring in your life. Yes, you could put up protection spells, but at the same time, pushing them out of your life completely (and usually displacing them by some strange coincidence…) is usually much more effective. Some people will argue that you won’t get bad Karma because of this, but you’re moving a person out of the area they enjoy, you could be moving a parent out of the life of his/her child, or you could be moving a teacher out of the life of a student. You aren’t just giving someone what they deserve and protecting yourself; you’re also causing a lot of negative effects for a lot of people. So you should be getting some bad Karma on this one. Yet I’d do it if it was necessary, and I don’t think that I should have negative outcomes because of it. If that’s the case, there’s negative outcomes to everything we do.
What is the big draw to the Rule of Three and Karma then? Is it that people have experienced the effects of it? Couldn’t that just as well be the effects of not living out your soul’s desire? The world could be trying its hardest to push you away from these unnecessary actions that are pushing other people off of their soul’s paths as well.
So the next question is, “What’s my soul’s path then?” I really don’t have an answer for you on that except to ask other questions, “What have you ever done that made you feel ecstatically happy?” and ”What makes you want to be awake rather than be sleeping?”
Oh yeah, and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t involve TV.
I’m not so much talking about paganism as I am talking about every day life. I have told friends, who were having troubles with their mothers that they should just cut the strings and move on. Basically telling them to banish mother until she can learn to behave.
So, I’d have to say that I believe in Crowley’s laws. If it works to better yourself, I don’t believe there can be a negative effect from it.
I’ve walked away from friends before because we weren’t on the same path or they didn’t agree with me (in such a way that it got in the way). I don’t feel that I should get negative karma because I did something that was good for me and my spirit. Getting rid of their negativity is releasing.
I mean in life relationships we break with people all the time because we figure out that they aren’t right for us. You just don’t see this girl or guy making it the long haul. In a lot of situations the woman or man you dump might think you’re the one. They see wedding bells.
Playing by the rule of three would mean you couldn’t break up with this person because it would hurt them, even though continuing the relationship hurts you. Then once the relationship is dissolved karma would be knocking at your door to screw up three other relationships.
It just doesn’t really seem fair.
Do what you need to do to stay on the right path. Though of course there are limits to this. You can’t leave behind a young child just because he makes finding your path a bit more difficult.
I’m happiest when I’m totally absorbed in creating. Time doesn’t seem to matter when I’m fully enthralled in creating.
I would have to agree with your view MFTRW. I do not think any thing wrong will come from taking care of your self to better your life and your walk. And as long as you do some thing to better your self I truly do not be leave any thing bad or harmful will come out of it. True some thing might happen that you do not like some where down the road be it far in the future or in the near. I would not call that Carma simply life things happen to teach us and to make us stronger in some way, and life is full of that till you keep going and making it work for you and your life. but thats just my opinion.
I feel that when it comes to real life, the rule of three falls short. There are gray areas. Like the commentor above said, what about when you both suffer from being together? Is it better just to suffer through it? I think not, but then again…
Everything happens for a reason. Perhaps you have something to learn from it. Perhaps their involvment with you holds some lesson for them. Then again, when you separate them from yourself against their will, maybe that sends them off on a new tangent towards spiritual learning. It’s pretty much your personal decision. I feel that in such situations, the rule of three kind of cancels out. The universe unfolds in some pretty strange ways, and what’s meant to be will be.
Aside from that, you have to consider that life is only 10% what happens to you and 90% what you make of it. In that case, what’s wrong and what’s right pretty much depends on your perspective.
I think that a better rule, would to be to act on all things with Love in your heart, and to steer away from acting out of hatred, or to act purely on your own desires.
I think sometimes when you do magick of a banishing nature, you are probably only speeding-up the eventual. Otherwise, it wouldn’t work.
I’m a Thelemite and agree with Crowley as well. From a Thelemic standpoint magical ethics are very simple – magick that is not in harmony with your True Will doesn’t work. That’s why practical magick is so useful for personal development. By carefully analyzing your magical successes and failures you can gain valuable insight into the nature of your True Will in an objective fashion.
The western idea of karma has very little to do with how the concept is actually taught in Buddhism and Hinduism. Its origin was actually in the Theosophy of the nineteenth century, and it consists of a sort of synthesis of Hindu and Christian ideas that I think winds up being worse than both. As actually taught in Buddhism and Hinduism, karma is simply a term for cause and effect in the world.
For example, the Theosophical idea is something to the effect of “yesterday I was rude to somebody so today my car won’t start.” The thought is that when you perform an unethical action according to some objective standard you are somehow punished by apparently unrelated events. How it’s really taught is more like “I didn’t put gas in my car yesterday so today it won’t start.” With genuine teachings about karma, there’s always a direct connection between the cause and the effect. Though, of course, the person you were rude to could have found your car and siphoned the gas out of the tank to get back at you.
As far as the “threefold law” goes, it is very applicable in social situations (“what goes around comes around”) but in magick it is more an artifact of a particular style of spellcasting. When you work magick by aligning your own aura or body of light with that of your target, it is pretty common for you to get hit by the effects of your own spell. This generally results in a diminished (rather than threefold) effect on the caster. So a healing spell cast in this way will make the caster a little more healthy too, and a curse will make the caster unlucky.
Formal ceremonial magick uses containment structures, like the Goetic triangle or the Enochian Holy Table. The magical energy is summoned into this external space and sent to the target through a magical link that is also placed within the bounds of the container. When spells are cast in this way there is no “backlash” and all of the energy raised by the spell is transmitted to the target.
My impression is that the “Rule of 3″ is an oversimplification for the use of people who don’t like to analyze things deeply (note, I’m not calling anyone a Fluffy Bunny–I’m just recognizing that some people are mentally lazy and don’t update their Reality Checker often enough). It’s an okay starting place for young children or others who’ve never looked very deeply into spiritual principles…but it’s a crutch. It implies there’s some nebulous Karma Bureau somewhere out there, keeping track of everything you do & meting out rewards/punishments accordingly. That’s the same sloppy logic which infers that people in unfortunate circumstances must have earned their griefs and disabilities by being a**holes in a past life, therefore undeserving of any help. It’s still an Xian world view, an assumption that life’s events are Judgments From Above rather than natural results of interactions with the Universe and each other.
I haven’t studied Crowley extensively, though I find I have to agree with the concept that Will is the one vehicle via which we move forward and get things done. Whatever comes to us without Will is tentative and easily lost. That’s not to say we don’t have to consider what’s right or wrong about a potential course of action–it’s just that “right” and “wrong” are themselves more difficult to discern than most of us wish they were. As Josh already pointed out, win-win-all-around situations are VERY rare–everything has a cost; nobody’s lunch is free.
My take on the Best Way to Bet, karmic-wise, is to recognize that whatever we send out eventually returns…to us and everyone closely linked to us. “Good” and “Evil” tend to be defined in terms of where you’re standing at the moment, but “cinnamon,” “lilac,” and “septic tank” are easily distinguishable when the vapors hit your nose. I find I experience best results when I concentrate on sending out essences that I don’t mind smelling when the wind brings them back to me. I like the scents of mild words and courtesy. Self-pity and resentment smell like unflushed toilets and rancid garbage. Cruelty has the odor of toxic volatiles; you can tell by the incipient headache the minute it hits your sinuses that too many whiffs will give you brain damage.
That’s what works for me. If it translates for you, well and good. If not, it simply proves what I say all the time: Nobody can do your spiritual homework for you.
Both the Rule of Three/Karma and Crowley’s one rule cancel each other out, but also help each other if you can see it. Crowley’s one rule states, “Do what thou will, shall be the whole of the law.” and Rule of Three/Karma, is somewhat close to that but more compact and restricting. Doing what you believe is necessary to stay on the path, but also, could be leaving behind negatve impact on those surrounding you. Almost the same as Karma, what you do in the past could be/will be reflected in the present if not the future of your life and their lives as well. When a child is born, they are completely without problems (except for a few needs). But as they grow, the impact that others leave behind will affect that child in more ways than one and in which will cause them to either have a negative attitude towards someone or the realization is that they might have a chance in turning someone’s life around a complete 180 degrees for the good. There is a spell that has been passed down from one generation to the next in my family has awoken us to the enlightenment of that which we seek. If you believe this spell with all your heart, soul, and mind, the path you wish to seek will be revealed to you over time. People of this day and age, want it fast and want it now. But if they want it soo badly, then why do they whine and complain while someone else actually does something. I, myself, being a spell caster, knew it in my blood and from the past experiences in my heritage past down that it was sure to be, but I wanted the re-assurance of it to be my true path to enlightenment. I don’t look to others for help, if I want it badly enough, I’ll do it on my own and reap the rewards of seeking out that which I want so deeply.
I believe in Kharma, but I’m still on the fence about how it truely works.
Not sure how to put this, so I’m going to have to be blunt.
There are people in my life who almost always put themselves first, step on anyone to get what they want, back stab, you name it.
I on the other hand for whatever reason aren’t that way. I’m kind, considerate, accepting, etc.
We both get the same amount good and bad in our lives. Actually they usually seem to get more without effort than I do.
I actually get quite depressed from time to time over this exact thing. Thom and I refer to it as Frank Grimming it. It has to do with an episode from the Simpsons. Frank Grimes does everything the way it should be and gets nowhere. Where Homer’s a complete mess-up all the time and gets everything.
In the end Frank finally freaks out, tries acting like Homer and dies. I feel this way ALOT.
It’s funny those people who I see act in a way that SHOULD bring them back Kharma swear by it. It’s like one of there top 10 sayings (while I bite my tongue VERY hard).
I also have a grandmother. She could literally be a saint. 86 yrs old, quadruple by-pass, all the health problems that usual come with that age. Goes to church every week and lives by it, but doesn’t judge. She’s the one accepting of other’s faith’s and lifestyles. She’s gets the normal about of bad luck.
While the other Grandmother who beat her kids, sponged off of them, only does for others for appearances or for something in return. She’s relativly healthy, good things fall into her lap all the time.
I don’t get it.
I think we tend to think of it as someone or something is up there judging our actions and gives it back to us.
What I’m thinking, it’s more of what we put out. If we think there’s nothing wrong with what we did, then there’s not Kharmacally speaking.
Like cheating on someone. Some people take that as a serious offense and feel guilty for doing it, while other’s think it’s just a natural part of life and hold no guilt.
Does that make sense.
I don’t know if agree with that, but’s it’s been a working theory.
PS…
I think this intertwines with the law of attraction (the secret) too.
I’ve mentioned this before privatly I think. I have a friend, once she wants something, it finds her no matter what.
She feel entitled to everything. Has kind of a Princess complex thing going on.
It’s rare a feel entitled to anything, when I want something, I swear it disappears off the face of the planet.